I would like to invite you to share any case that you think has a peculiar line of reasoning required to understand it. That requires that you know the outcome so as to finally know what line of reasoning was proper. What I am extending is an invitation to share the reasoning required by the case, not necessarily the pathophysiology. Of course some pathophysiology may be required to explain the reasoning, but the aim is to capture clinical diagnostic reasoning. I am beginning a collection of cases that demonstrate the types of reasoning we employ in our profession clinically. At this time, I am looking to limit it to Diagnostic exercises. If you are not sure what type of reasoning you are employing, just that it was a bit mind bending to figure out, share it still and we can discuss what names we can give the measures you took.
The relevance of this exercise is to characterize the reasoning processes we use. They are integral to the information processes we use - in fact, they are the connections that motivate or explain the proper pathway of connections between individual information processing steps. That is why such a case collection belongs to the domain of informatics. Understanding clinical diagnostic reasoning can make our diagnostic service more consistant and reliable and help us troubleshoot when things don't add up.
When I was getting the VINTW WebLINK section ready -- to point to the VINner homepages -- I noticed a variety of "looks."
I admire anyone who has gotten a homepage up already -- *I* certainly haven't done it yet. <G>
But I was wondering if you could take the time to talk about the options available for appearance, information management, photos, graphics, etc. Because, when I *do* get to it, I want to have a snazzy home page. I want to get LOTS of "hits" on my page. LOL
So, do you have any pointers? Any information that you have gleaned from the computer community or the "cyberdudes" on how to make a fantastic and USEFUL webpage?
Anything I can do to make MY future homepage prettier than yours already is? ;-)
Maybe we can look at this as an informal class. <G>
Did you ever wonder how we publish text and pictures on VIN?
Well we use a very easy programming language that AOL provide.
BUT no matter how easy -- it does require a bit of finesse.
So -- as a result -- to avoid needing to teach everyone at VIN to use the programming language we have developed a very easy to use program that lets you build text/graphic collections of information and submit them to us -- where we have office staff who can - without knowing the language, run it through another program that can turn it into online text and graphics in a few minutes.
So -- let me open up this offer -- anyone want to develop:
MY CORNER on VIN or Pet Care Forum?
Anyone want to develop
CASE PRESENTATIONS, etc
Anyone want to build an area for their ASSOCIATION or practice?
Well then -- let us know and we'll let you be an early tester of the program.
If there in enough interest in any topic, I would be glad to moderate. That's how I learn.
I have heard 2 generic types of gripes about web pages. First, I have heard complaints that there is nothing on them. They are just an endless chain of links from one to another. The other is that the page is too slow or does not even work. Such annoyances do not invite returns or spread attractive notions. So, these two things would be good keep in mind as we wander into the topic. Specifically, make you web page simple enough to easily maintain the links and small enough graphics to load quickly. Most of all. Reward the browser by giving some content. It does not have to be earth shattering, just something informative, entertaining or interesting. Pose the question to yourself, "What would I want to know if I were coming to this webpage?" The anwer depends upon the theme underwhich you wish to attract someone or in which you care to share information.
That brings us to a sort of starting place for exploration. I suggest we begin discussing two threads. (1) What have you seen browsing that "worked" for you? What did you like on others' pages? What did you not like? What helped you or informed you? (2) Begin to think about what message it is you want to send to readers? On who's behalf do you wish to share information? What is the target audience ("everyone in the world" is not a focused population)?
The answers to these questions will dictate a plan of action. Let's start with that and we will go with the flow of the replies.
If you are stumped for a place to start, I suggest visiting the webpage of the Clinical Decision Making Group (my research group; who's page I had little to do with). If you have a Netscape 2.0 features supporting browser you will see a different presentation than the AOL browser. AOL 3.0 for windows supports using Netscape for the browser as well as the Microsoft browser. You may see some features of the page you like (or dislike). For a veterinary topic hub check out NetVet. Then report back here and tell us all what you think. No right answers here; just all good ideas.
PS AOL3.0 for windows supports Netscape 2.0 features!! Still, you want to consider folks who have not got the what-it-takes to endure the latest version of everything available. Make your page friendly for everyone.
Paul's post suggests we do some "work around the house". I am sure he and those working on it would appreciate our comments on the VIN Internet Gateway. So, if you want, browse the pages found there and comment on them; your likes, dislikes, what's helpful and not. Remember, VIN does not have responsibility for the look and feel of most of those web pages, but we can critique them just the same. It will give VIN staff a better feel for what is extra helpful and what not.
Webpages; How do we figure out what to put on one?
Let's say we are making a clinic web page. It is my strong opinion that the question is answered by considering what the target population is looking for. What do your clients need to know about the clinic?
The name. To make sure that they have the right place and remember it. Remember that the image of your clinic is being established by the presentation here on the web, just as in the decor of the waiting room and on your printed handout materials. Choice of font and layout formating should be no different than other printed material.
Who - the staff. This is an opportunity to personalize the clinic by including pictures of people they can expect warm service from. While you may not have a digital camera, that does not mean you cannot get pictures for the web. For small pictures (like portraits) a video can be used if you or someone you know has one of the video capture cards. If nothing else, you can take a photograph and scan it. If you know noone with a scanner, you can have it done inexpensively at a print/copy shop.
Put the same things on a webpage that you would put on a flyer about your clinic. Hours of operation, phone/fax numbers, services available, ...
Consider unique opportunities the web gives you. Perhaps you can offer an email address with a qualifying statement about the response to be expected to email.
Newsletters have not be credited with much success. However, the web offers an opportunity for those who like to write, to do so and distribute without the cost of printing or postage. If you write a helpful paragraph or two, that might be enough content to reward the browser for visiting the page. Changing this regularly can build up an anticipation of value for returning frequently. This tidbit need not be deep, it only need be helpful.
If you wish to write something of more depth and length, you can make more than one page and link all of them. Consider a page that has the latest article written and a link to all those previously written. Now you are getting more mileage out of each article written. No longer are the past articles lost. Anyone can catch up at any point in time.
OK. Its your turn. I have introduced a few ideas. We have not exhausted the considerations on any of them. I have purposely left some things unsaid in each case, so don't be afraid to raise any exceptions you are wondering about. Lets hear some comments...
To me the main issue is not so much what is on the page -- which is important. But how do you get anyone to look at the page.
There are tons of newsletters and billboards in the world. But how does one get them looked at.
That is where VIN, AOL, and AAHA and others can help. We are working on ways to draw consumer trafffic to our areas and then direct them to VINners and AAHA members.
Like yellow pages ads, somehow there has to be a distinction -- a reason that they pick out your webpage. Unlike yellow page ads, anyone can have one free (if on AOL). Unlike yellow page ads, they must change to be interesting and have folks come back and look.
>To me the main issue is not so much what is on the page -- which is important. But how do you get anyone to look at the page.
Paul,
I contend the way to get someone to look at your page is to start with what is to be put on it!!!! It must begin with something that they want to know about or all is lost before we begin! AFTER that prerequisite is met, then what you have decided to put on the page must be put into a "successful" form. To test my point, what happens when totally disinteresting stuff is published with the finest of professionalism?
Second, how can we begin to answer the question of how best to present until we have any idea what it is we are going to say or include? How do you prepare a lecture without knowing the content to be covered? an article without knowing the things you must get accross? a painting without knowing what is to be in the picture? plan a diagnostic workup before knowing what or who the patient is?
How many things in this world alow us to ask, "How?" before we ask, "What?"
This I suggest is the real problem when most people ask, "What do I put on a Web page?"
you may want to get some ideas by looking at popular web pages and see what people go to see. One I frequent is :
The Buzbee Bat House Temperature Plot at
http://www.nyx.net/%7Ejbuzbee/bat_house.html
It has a graph of the temperature in Mr. Buzbee's bat house- not the Val Kilmer house;-) ;-). It takes the temp q 1/2 hr and plots it on a graph. the last 5 day's worth of temps are available. It also has links to cool Bat areas and educational stuff.
Sound weird, and like- who in the world would go there? Well it is in the top 5% of all web pages with 30,000 hits monthly!!! Believe it- see for yourself
I agree with Dwayne, it is the content, and something that changes frequently, so it does not get 'stale'. Like the adventures of "Dusty" the clinic cat- his recent run through the clinic being chased by a friendly;-) Weimereiner that just wanted to play!!!
You could have a place for clients to sign up for recieving a monthly email reminder to give their Heartworm/ flea protection. You could even charge a fee for the service.
Then you could send email newsletters, or vaccination reminders, and possibly set appointments in advance.
Oops, I am getting a little carried away now 8-)
Take care
Ray Ramirez
Useless piece of information
There are approximately 1,700 O's in 1 can of Spagetti-o's
This is great. I have not looked at a lot of pages, but there are some real poor ones out there. (I am not talking vet ones.)
What to put on the page:
Name
Address
a MAP!!!
Services, and the staff involved in those areas
(If you do NOT offer emergency care, or are affiliated with an emergency hospital, create a link to that business, with Name, Address, Hours, a MAP, etc)
Hours
Staff activities or hobbies or community projects outside the veterinary facility (personalize your facility this way)
Staff attendance at continuing education meetings -- a short writeup or tidbit on what they learned at that meeting that will be good for the patients
Hospital pets and their lives (a pet biography)
For VIN members, information on how they keep up with medical breakthroughs by using electronic communications. What VIN allows them to access that helps in the treatment of their patients.
Book lists -- useful books for owners or animal lovers
Those are great ideas! While the rest of you are formulating your response...
Consider the nature of your ideas; some are graphical, some are textual, some are links or pointers to other topics, places or issues. In other words there are some natural dictates here for what you need to display these pieces and how to organized them.
Obviously, there is too much on your list, Carl, for one screen. Note that I did not say for one page. You can make a page virtually as long as you can make a file that can be stored on the computer that serves your web page. It is just a matter of navigating through it with the limit of one screen visible at a time. Hence navigation over the page is a topic we need to develop in this discussion soon. However, I suggest we hear more likes and dislikes about content first!
We have had a web site for 6 mo. Listed it with a local newspaper's server to get free local advertizing. Offered a "coupon" to track client usage. Advertised in clinic , business cards, fliers, reciepts. You guessed it ! No responses.... My >02 cents... do it for entertainment , not to make money....at least in this century.
Your experience is not unique. I don't have the statistics in front of me -- but the number of websites that go up is staggering and the number coming down even more staggering.
The truth is that although there are examples of sites that just attract the curious -- want to know what's on the TV of a certain UC Berkeley grad student's TV -- you can find it as many do daily -- but most sites are not very successful.
For most it takes great amounts of work, time, and $$$ to create and maintain a site that maintains popularity. Like a telephone book listing it is useful when people come looking for you to have one -- but you also with everyone else having one it takes a lot to stand our from the crowd.
I think a good effort at maintaining basic info about yourself and your clinic for the interested client would be time well spent. If you have the talent in your clinic, fun "gimics" can build loyalty amongst your online clients but I've not heard of many clinics with great success in this thus far.
Let's hear some success stories. If they are to be found I'm sure that someone reading this has them.
I really think that it would be great if AOL,VIN , or AAHA would pick up the ball and act as a website yellow pages. I think it would encourage more clinics to make them if they knew that people moving into the area may be able to find them easily. I sure would like to know that my vet has computer capabilities.....
<<Are we going to have a VIN course/vignette on doing a Web Page?>>
Its certainly feasible. It depends as always upon the interest expressed. That expression could be direct requests of the VIN CE staff or by participation on the boards here. This topic of discussion is in response to some requests on the boards here. I am approaching the discussion in a sort of "in-prompt-to"(sp?) course-like fashion. Where we go from there all depends on the participation.
I appreciate your candor. Just to fuel the discussion, could it be that the content of our web pages has anything to do with their successes? I mean, do we know yet that it can't work or just that "we" don't yet know how to make it work? Harmon Rogers, among others, gave an excellent presentation on multimedia in veterinary medicine at the Annual Richard Talbot Informatics Symposium at AVMA meeting a few days ago. One of his points was that successful multimedia products like the Microsoft Dog CDRom he participated in, are not the product of single professionals, but vast projects with teams of professionals including animation artists and megabuck resources [250,000 - $1,000,000 investments]. Could we be similarly lacking a professional level of some sort in our web pages?
Secondly, by what means are we measuring the "success" of a web page. I put it to the discussion that we may not be approaching web pages with clear crisp objectives and decided criterion with which to judge our progress in those objectives. If the objective is loosely established in our minds and the measurement is the ol' simplistic "did we make more money?" criteria, does the negative outcome suprise you? It seems like making money these days usually takes a more well thought out mechanism of evaluation according to measurable attributes. That approach can tell us when we are making progress on explicit objectives and when we are not. It can allow us to modify our course of action earlier in the process of discovering what web pages can do for us if anything.
Having offered the counter argument, I am also willing to entertain that web page usage is still in the exploratory stage where we are just plain dabbling around to see what useful potentials might pop up if further developed.
I beg us all to continue to analyze what it is that successfully "compells us" (to use Harmon's favorite term) about the web pages we browse and what does the opposite for us.
I agree that pooled knowledge is always greater that a single effort. The "success" or failure of a web page may be more dependent on what we , as veterinarians, do with this new technology. If web pages can be organized in a national or international "yellow page" formate , allowing people all over the world to find our site easily and with purpose. That purpose being locating a new veterinarian in a new city. Two decent new clients moving to my area attacked to my clinic by my web site would cover the cost of the site.( Albeit my site costs far less than the 250,000 to a 1,000,000 range). What I'm getting at is that it is not necessarily the site itself that attracts visitors, but the path to it that is needed. I think AAHA has started the ball rolling by listing all member hospitals and if they could be connected, excuse my lingo, "linked", to our web site that would be a start. I would also like to see AOL list all veterinary web sites, so those millions of AOL uses who are moving to Tucson can find me.
I realize that our web site is too new to be successful and most of our success will be from our failure. We will know what will not work.
O.K...........I also lied. After I deemed our effort a failure I looked up the number of "hits" our site got last month and it was over a 1000. I thought it would be 10. Granted most are casual browsers but that still seemed like allot and worth the "entertainment".
<<Are we going to have a VIN course/vignette on doing a Web Page?>>
Its certainly feasible. It depends as always upon the interest expressed. That expression could be direct requests of the VIN CE staff or by participation on the boards here. This topic of discussion is in response to some requests on the boards here. I am approaching the discussion in a sort of "in-prompt-to"(sp?) course-like fashion. Where we go from there all depends on the participation.
:)uane
================
Some other things I like on web page are: information, particulars about a product. I rarely go to a web page to look up info on a local business. Of course part of the problem is there are very few (none I know of) that have a web page for me to browse.
I like the idea of a VIN or general Veterinary web page. It would have general guidelines that the AVMA or other professional organizations have available to the public.
an idea of mine:
And allow clients to sign up for an email reminder for monthly (ie heartworm/flea control) medication. It could even send 'annual' reminders to clients. This would be in addition to the USPS postcard reminder. A small fee could be charged.
That's a great idea for a use of the internet and email (Reminders by email). A web page would not be required to provide email reminders. Anyone with email and a database could do that without the expense of a web page. However, as you point out, the web page grants a good opportunity for the computer literate to "sign up" for such service.
I am doing mitral valve repair in little old dogs with a pediatric cardiovascular surgeon. We accept dogs that have failed medical therapy and are near death. So far, we have 5 dead dogs and 1 dog that is completely disease and medication free for the last 1 1/2 years.
I have had trouble getting referrals from veterinarians (don't mention it to the owner, forget it as a possibility, think it's too extreme to try, don't know about it, etc). I would like to get exposure to the owners. Seems like the WWW would be a reasonable place to begin.
I know WHAT I want to put on a web page, but I don't know how people will find it. Do you list with a search company? If so, who? How do they decide what words to search on? How much should I expect to pay? Who do I contact? What program do I use to compose the web page? How do I do weblinks on the page?
Let's put together a story on your dogs for PCF as a feature -- bet that gets you some perspective clients. I would also regularly remind the cardiologists and ohter VINners online.
<<I know WHAT I want to put on a web page, but I don't know how people will find it. >>
The simplist answer is to put yourself in the target market's shoes. If you were a small dog owner where would you go on the web? What would attract you? Answer that question and then get your page listed there. There are two ways to accomplish that. The lazy and the energetic way. The lazy way is to ask the page owner if they would be willing to list a link to your page. The energetic way is less dependent upon the whims of the page owner. The energetic way is to actively provide some big reason why the page owner wants despirately to have a link to your page included on theirs. Lets answer some of your questions and return to this.
"Do you list with a search company? If so, who?"
This is of course a possible method. Which one? Use the guide I already offered as one suggestion. Use the one most likely to be used by your target market. If you can't find a secluded list service, highly frequented by the target market, then go by overall high rate of visitation. I suggest Infoseek, Yahoo, AltaVista are very busy search services. For an education, pick any search engine and do a search on "list services". Now think about the results of that little exercise (I will not spoil the surprise any more than that). Next, visit some of the ones you have heard about. If you are trying to market your referral services to referring veterinarians, ask yourself where they are visiting. Which search engine do they hear about most often. Consider the engines accessed by Netscape, AOL and Compuserve via built in "search" buttons. What are the search engines mentioned by speakers at veterinary conventions and on boards like this and the Computers in Veterinary Medicine folder (do a search of the VIN database on "search" w/ or w/o "engines" and see which ones are found there by vets doing the same). Want to narrow your focus geographically? Look in the local area listing services. Ken Boshert has a few links to major search engines on NetVet. That alone suggests where many veterinarians are gonna look.
<<How do they decide what words to search on?>>
The listings will categorize you like yellow page listings. I imagine there are some who will let you list in as many headings as you wish. Again, what will your target market think about. Frankly, I NEVER use the categories provided by listings. I expect most everybody uses the searchword entry method. So what words will they use to search with? Notice that search engines only search so deep in your web page and if it searches the entire html code for the page, they only list the first few lines if any on the results. SO, put your best choice of words for search hits and peaking interest in the first sentance of your web page!!!!
<<How much should I expect to pay?>>
Frankly, I can't tell you. I have honestly never paid for any listing. I will give you a good reason why at the end of this posting. Anyone who has taken the time to find out should post a message about what they found out. It should be a simple matter of following the instructive links you will find on the web page of the search engine you are interested in.
<<Who do I contact?>>
As I suggested, before, use any free search engine to search for "list services" or "search engines".
<<What program do I use to compose the web page?>>
Do a search on "web authoring tools" to get an excessively long list. Long as it is, it can give you some candidates for consideration and this will range from simple shareware to high priced professional tools. If you have the latest version of a major word processor program, look in the help files because they are likely to tell you how to automatically generate html formated files directly from your word processor. Finally, there are web page composition tools right here on AOL for composing your own web page. Use keyword, "my place".
There are lots of books on html coding as well as online resources (again, search on the keyword "html"). Its as easy as inserting codes and URLs into the page of regular text.
Find a page you like or one that contains links you wish to use and use the menu option to see the "source document". This is the raw code for the page and is a great way to see how folks do things you like.
BTW, there is talk of setting up a directory on the web with all the veterinary clinics listed (presumably only those who request it and submit URL, email address or contact details for a linkless listing).
OK NOW. How do you get pages to list your page as a link for free?
Simple, provide value added service. Add to what you want to say, something that will cause widespread interest in visiting your page. If you have something novel on your page, the people who's job it is to find such novelties will want to list you on their "best of the web" pages. For example, Lynne, how 'bout a few quicktime clips of heart surgery on a dog. Quicktime does not demand high resolution so any video camera you can bring into surgery with adequate sterile barriers will do for web page purposes. If video is too much, take conventional photographs and scan them in. How 'bout an applet on your page that has a dog run a lap around the page; drag and drop a new mitral valve onto the dog and then run a lap to see how much better it runs around. Something like that which sets you apart from the rest of the pages will get you listed.
Let's focus in on graphic items for a web page. Can we identify some properties about graphics that are good and some that are bad. While we may not be able to give absolute quantitative guidelines, let's identify some qualities to be sought and some to be avoided.
For starters, if your graphic is so big that it makes people wait for page loading, is that good or bad? What do you think? ...then I will offer some insights.
I would like you to critique the self portrait on my web page (http://medg.lcs.mit.edu/people/duane/duanespg.html). I can think of a few faults that it exhibits. Before I change it, what do you think my criticisms are?
Let's focus in on graphic items for a web page. Can we identify some properties about graphics that are good and some that are bad. While we may not be able to give absolute quantitative guidelines, let's identify some qualities to be sought and some to be avoided.
For starters, if your graphic is so big that it makes people wait for page loading, is that good or bad? What do you think? ...then I will offer some insights.
I would like you to critique the self portrait on my web page (http://medg.lcs.mit.edu/people/duane/duanespg.html). I can think of a few faults that it exhibits. Before I change it, what do you think my criticisms are?
